Outerlimits Sets SV Single Kilo Record
05-02-2014 | 10:08 PM
#111
Registered
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 460
Likes: 17
From: Missouri
Perhaps I can clarify a few things
The Snowy Mountain Brewery Boat was never registered as a Super Vee Light nor was it trying to break the Super Vee Light record......SMB was registered in the class of Super Vee Canopy under the Special Events Category....Super Vee Light is a class under the Offshore Category....in fact there is a Super Vee Light and a Super Vee Light Single class listed under the Offshore Category....if you go to the APBA website and look up records (or speed records) under the Offshore Category you will see this
Because of the confusion that was generated when everyone thought that SMB was run under the Super Vee Light category, (which is understandable being that those are the boats it routinely races against) the ABPA requested that the class name be changed to not include either the words "Super" or"Lite" so to hopefully alleviate the confusion.....The SMB team agreed and thus the class SV Single was designated
As far as the Special Events category vs the Offshore category there are different waiting periods and other criteria required from the APBA to put on each repected event......to put on an Offshore Kilo it is basically like putting on an Offshore race which is why most of the time Offshore Kilos are piggy backed on races.......As far safety, divers, timing equipment, Coast Guard Approval, Officials, the two are very similar
Because the owner of the SV43 had other obligations for the hull and the owner of the 1650's had other obligations for the engines the Special Events category was really the only option to get the Kilo record attempts accomplished......There are many records listed in the Special Events Category that involve Offshore Boats...I believe that this was the the same category used when the Cigarette team attempted to break the Vee Hull Kilo record
It is a shame that a tremendous accomplishment has been tarnished.....as a team we went into this hoping that this would create a positive buzz in the Offshore World and would be a boost to the entire Industry....the amount of work done by Brian Forehand and his team at Marker 17 to get the 43 set up to attempt a speed record with the amount of time in which they had to get it done combined with resulting outcome is nothing short of amazing......the technology and efficiency that comes with an Outerlimits hull combined with the incredible power plants being produced at Mercury Racing can obviously produce game changing results.....the two boat owners, Joe Sgro and Doc Janssen also deserve much credit
I would like to add there was certainly no malicious attempt to discredit any prior accomplishments and records......if any individual or organization feels that they were slighted by this event I would like to offer my public apology
Mark A Tuck
The Snowy Mountain Brewery Boat was never registered as a Super Vee Light nor was it trying to break the Super Vee Light record......SMB was registered in the class of Super Vee Canopy under the Special Events Category....Super Vee Light is a class under the Offshore Category....in fact there is a Super Vee Light and a Super Vee Light Single class listed under the Offshore Category....if you go to the APBA website and look up records (or speed records) under the Offshore Category you will see this
Because of the confusion that was generated when everyone thought that SMB was run under the Super Vee Light category, (which is understandable being that those are the boats it routinely races against) the ABPA requested that the class name be changed to not include either the words "Super" or"Lite" so to hopefully alleviate the confusion.....The SMB team agreed and thus the class SV Single was designated
As far as the Special Events category vs the Offshore category there are different waiting periods and other criteria required from the APBA to put on each repected event......to put on an Offshore Kilo it is basically like putting on an Offshore race which is why most of the time Offshore Kilos are piggy backed on races.......As far safety, divers, timing equipment, Coast Guard Approval, Officials, the two are very similar
Because the owner of the SV43 had other obligations for the hull and the owner of the 1650's had other obligations for the engines the Special Events category was really the only option to get the Kilo record attempts accomplished......There are many records listed in the Special Events Category that involve Offshore Boats...I believe that this was the the same category used when the Cigarette team attempted to break the Vee Hull Kilo record
It is a shame that a tremendous accomplishment has been tarnished.....as a team we went into this hoping that this would create a positive buzz in the Offshore World and would be a boost to the entire Industry....the amount of work done by Brian Forehand and his team at Marker 17 to get the 43 set up to attempt a speed record with the amount of time in which they had to get it done combined with resulting outcome is nothing short of amazing......the technology and efficiency that comes with an Outerlimits hull combined with the incredible power plants being produced at Mercury Racing can obviously produce game changing results.....the two boat owners, Joe Sgro and Doc Janssen also deserve much credit
I would like to add there was certainly no malicious attempt to discredit any prior accomplishments and records......if any individual or organization feels that they were slighted by this event I would like to offer my public apology
Mark A Tuck
05-03-2014 | 12:28 AM
#112
OSO Content Provider
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 19,757
Likes: 112
From: Sharkey-Images.com
Keith,
Being around the sport as long as I have I will admit, I was confused as well.
That is until you really think hard of what went down on Monday & Tuesday.
The easiest way for me to figure this out is: Take all thoughts of OPA/APBA or any SBI racing classes out of the equation. ALL OF THEM !
After further research this was apparently a SPECIAL EVENT certified by the APBA with a newly formed boat club called Atlantic Coast Powerboat Association and a newly formed Classification for the Outerlimits 29V. (Question though is, Why was Mr Tuck not instructed to contact OPA to avoid having to start up a new club or at least given the option???)
A quote from Matt Trulio's story, "Getting the APBA to provide a special sanction for the event was easy—all Tuck and his wife had to do was form a divisional APBA club, and so the Atlantic Coast Powerboat Association was born."
See this link for entire story: It Took A Village to Break a Record
For the record though, I would like to state that I am very proud of the accomplishments for the 43 OL & the 29 OL . It took an incredible amount of work for both boats to achieve their marks and I do agree that it is a shame that such controversy came away from this.
On another note:
It seemed that the record for the 43 OL could of stood alone and no one was really arguing the point about the boat because so many people just assumed the class the boat normally races in may not have any restrictions . That is fine but now we learn this was not an Offshore Record Event. Perhaps some record checking can be done to see if Reggie Fountain's Speed record was a Special Event Record or an Offshore Record ? If it turns up that Reggie's Record was recorded as an Offshore Event then my guess would be that Reggie's Record still stands for the class he is recorded in. Under the Special Events, is it clear on what name of the class the 43 OL is being titled ???
No matter what, we do all now realize that the 29 OL did not break a record but it established a record in a new class SV Single "Special Event" . As far as the name of the class is concerned, I really wished they avoided using the SV . This just creates more confusion as the SV can be associated with SBI's Superboat Vee or OPA/APBA's Super Vee Light.
Just my thoughts on this for what its worth.
Congrats to all involved.
One thing for sure, it put a spark back into the Offshore Forum and it got people posting again !
Fountain vs OL is typically a great hot topic... and with some information I have received I would believe this will not be going away anytime soon....
All I ask for is that everyone is able to walk away from it safely.
Have at it !!!
Being around the sport as long as I have I will admit, I was confused as well.
That is until you really think hard of what went down on Monday & Tuesday.
The easiest way for me to figure this out is: Take all thoughts of OPA/APBA or any SBI racing classes out of the equation. ALL OF THEM !
After further research this was apparently a SPECIAL EVENT certified by the APBA with a newly formed boat club called Atlantic Coast Powerboat Association and a newly formed Classification for the Outerlimits 29V. (Question though is, Why was Mr Tuck not instructed to contact OPA to avoid having to start up a new club or at least given the option???)
A quote from Matt Trulio's story, "Getting the APBA to provide a special sanction for the event was easy—all Tuck and his wife had to do was form a divisional APBA club, and so the Atlantic Coast Powerboat Association was born."
See this link for entire story: It Took A Village to Break a Record
For the record though, I would like to state that I am very proud of the accomplishments for the 43 OL & the 29 OL . It took an incredible amount of work for both boats to achieve their marks and I do agree that it is a shame that such controversy came away from this.
On another note:
It seemed that the record for the 43 OL could of stood alone and no one was really arguing the point about the boat because so many people just assumed the class the boat normally races in may not have any restrictions . That is fine but now we learn this was not an Offshore Record Event. Perhaps some record checking can be done to see if Reggie Fountain's Speed record was a Special Event Record or an Offshore Record ? If it turns up that Reggie's Record was recorded as an Offshore Event then my guess would be that Reggie's Record still stands for the class he is recorded in. Under the Special Events, is it clear on what name of the class the 43 OL is being titled ???
No matter what, we do all now realize that the 29 OL did not break a record but it established a record in a new class SV Single "Special Event" . As far as the name of the class is concerned, I really wished they avoided using the SV . This just creates more confusion as the SV can be associated with SBI's Superboat Vee or OPA/APBA's Super Vee Light.
Just my thoughts on this for what its worth.
Congrats to all involved.
One thing for sure, it put a spark back into the Offshore Forum and it got people posting again !
Fountain vs OL is typically a great hot topic... and with some information I have received I would believe this will not be going away anytime soon....
All I ask for is that everyone is able to walk away from it safely.
Have at it !!!
05-03-2014 | 01:01 AM
#113
OSO Content Provider
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 19,757
Likes: 112
From: Sharkey-Images.com
After a quick search, it appears Reggie's Record still stands as his record was not a "Special Event Sanction" :
"The legendary boat manufacturer, Reggie Fountain from Washington, North Carolina, took the throttles and equally legendary racer, Ben Robertson from Jacksonboro, South Carolina stood at the helm of a brand new Fountain as they set an equally new record for the APBA Offshore Performance Extreme Vee Class with their # PV-76 Fountain.
The team, who joined APBA Offshore at the event, brought their Pier 57 –Fountain/Mercury raceboat hit a home run with an overall average of 171.004 miles per hour, slamming out a blistering 176.553 miles per hour on the return run.
Under the A.P.B.A. – U.I.M. sanctioning rules, each boat must make two total runs, one coming from the start to finish and the other back. Speeds are then averaged based with an intricate scoring system that records the actual start and finish times as they cross the beginning and ending points of the Kilo course on each run. "
Source: http://www.bymnews.com/new/content/view/2097/1/
"The legendary boat manufacturer, Reggie Fountain from Washington, North Carolina, took the throttles and equally legendary racer, Ben Robertson from Jacksonboro, South Carolina stood at the helm of a brand new Fountain as they set an equally new record for the APBA Offshore Performance Extreme Vee Class with their # PV-76 Fountain.
The team, who joined APBA Offshore at the event, brought their Pier 57 –Fountain/Mercury raceboat hit a home run with an overall average of 171.004 miles per hour, slamming out a blistering 176.553 miles per hour on the return run.
Under the A.P.B.A. – U.I.M. sanctioning rules, each boat must make two total runs, one coming from the start to finish and the other back. Speeds are then averaged based with an intricate scoring system that records the actual start and finish times as they cross the beginning and ending points of the Kilo course on each run. "
Source: http://www.bymnews.com/new/content/view/2097/1/
05-03-2014 | 01:50 AM
#114
Registered
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 659
Likes: 3
From: Brooklyn Park, MN
Who cares what class the OL43 or the fountain ran in. Bottom line is OL broke the record. The fact that it stood so long and the fact that OL now has the record speaks volumes about both companies/ people involved. (Skater/cigarette couldn't get it done.)congrats to OL and Fountain. As far as the 29 sounds like a bunch technicalities. The boat is fast we all know that.
05-03-2014 | 06:25 AM
#115
OSO Content Provider
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 19,757
Likes: 112
From: Sharkey-Images.com
I would think that if nobody cared there would not be over 7,000 views on this thread...... 
According to the information, the Fountain and the OL ran two different types of events, so how is it that the OL BROKE a record ?
I would go onto to say the OL established a NEW record and congratulations to them.
According to the information, the Fountain and the OL ran two different types of events, so how is it that the OL BROKE a record ?
I would go onto to say the OL established a NEW record and congratulations to them.
Last edited by SHARKEY-IMAGES; 05-03-2014 at 06:27 AM.
05-03-2014 | 08:24 AM
#116
Registered
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,831
Likes: 1
From: Kansas/LOTO
So then if I understand this whole thing correctly, these two boats started their own "club", paid to have someone "sanction" their own "special event", then run rediculously fast (awesome job!), and then after no technical inspections to establish a real classification claim some sort of new "record"? Awesome.
If the 43 run was the fastest V bottom run, call it that. The 29 was a fast run by a single engine V hull and nothing more.
Unless OPEN events that are truly sanctioned (meaning REAL tech inspections and fitting the boats within established rules, a "record" means nothing. If I owned a race boat I would be embarrassed to claim anything else.
If the 43 run was the fastest V bottom run, call it that. The 29 was a fast run by a single engine V hull and nothing more.
Unless OPEN events that are truly sanctioned (meaning REAL tech inspections and fitting the boats within established rules, a "record" means nothing. If I owned a race boat I would be embarrassed to claim anything else.
05-03-2014 | 09:35 AM
#117
Platinum Member
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,346
Likes: 211
From: St.Peters,Mo/5mm LOTO/LEOPA
So the SMB kilo is meaningless! You don't know if the speed is impresive or not. Nothing to compare it to or a specific set of rules to adhere to. Not that it isn't a beautiful boat, but when you build a 30 ft single and race against super vee lights... wouldn't people assume it supposed to be exactly that! And really what was the point! Wouldn't the 29 outerlimits have been WAY more imppressive if it was built to the super vee light rule book to a T and ran a bone stock 525. No controversy and no BS. Plus you had a baseline kilo speed to beat. Thats how you raise the bar.
05-03-2014 | 10:16 AM
#118
Registered
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 659
Likes: 3
From: Brooklyn Park, MN
I would think that if nobody cared there would not be over 7,000 views on this thread......
According to the information, the Fountain and the OL ran two different types of events, so how is it that the OL BROKE a record ?
I would go onto to say the OL established a NEW record and congratulations to them.
According to the information, the Fountain and the OL ran two different types of events, so how is it that the OL BROKE a record ?
I would go onto to say the OL established a NEW record and congratulations to them.
05-03-2014 | 03:46 PM
#119
Registered
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 230
Likes: 0
What are you talkin' about? It's all good, Earthwerks said so.
In SBI any penalty is a time penalty, therefore SBI's own scoring system encourages you to win by as much time as you can. That's why in every class you never see the leader holding back to put on a "show" because to us it is a race not a "show". If SBI wants to pay teams to put on their show I'm sure they could find plenty in the fleet who would be happy to do so, but not the teams that come to win. The winnings from a race don't cover 1/10 th of the cost, the only reward is the WIN not another wood plaque and checker flag. The Snowy Mountain Brewery Team goes to every race prepared to win with a boat, two motors, three drives, 15 props, that all meet the SBI rules TO THE LETTER.
05-03-2014 | 04:03 PM
#120
Registered
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 10,041
Likes: 712
From: Toledo Oh
So the SMB kilo is meaningless! You don't know if the speed is impresive or not. Nothing to compare it to or a specific set of rules to adhere to. Not that it isn't a beautiful boat, but when you build a 30 ft single and race against super vee lights... wouldn't people assume it supposed to be exactly that! And really what was the point! Wouldn't the 29 outerlimits have been WAY more imppressive if it was built to the super vee light rule book to a T and ran a bone stock 525. No controversy and no BS. Plus you had a baseline kilo speed to beat. Thats how you raise the bar.
