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Cigarette - The American Offshore Laughingstock

Old 02-23-2023, 04:49 AM
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Originally Posted by F-2 Speedy
Agree, Ive been every year tremendous event, the best for me was when some of the Cig factory folks flew in spent some time talking with them at the Toad, awesome time people who really cared about the folks that own the product they created.
let me know if you ever need a rope monkey for this one.
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Old 02-23-2023, 06:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Knot 4 Me
New boats could be considered the AMF era of Harley or the CBS era of Fender!
They could be the Serious Offshore of boat builders............
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Old 02-23-2023, 06:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Smarty
I walked through the Cigarette display Saturday. I love Cigarette boats, but I was extremely disappointed with the display and general "you are an inconvenience to my day attitude" by the 10 or more Cigarette employees who ignored me and all of the show attendees while I was present. If I were a prospect that ship has sailed.
You were probably dressed like a relaxed powerboat fan. You’re supposed to dress like a titan of industry, a ‘blinged’ rock star or a sports icon. Also helpful to have 3 or 4 heavy set thugs in black suits surrounding you if you want a so called ‘salesman’ to notice you.

RR
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Old 02-23-2023, 06:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Interceptor
My guess is cigarette is marketing their new products mostly to wealthy Europeans, the Riva and Magnum crowd on the coast of France, Italy and Spain along with some mid-east customers. None of these owners will ever raise the hatch, check oil or flush the engines.
Nah..........There is no "Magnum" crowd, they haven't built a boat in years. Europe has its own issues (like the US inflation issues).

Cigarette is likely making 1/10th of the boats that Skip made in his last year of ownership. I/O stuff is sexy but its dead, the OB powered stuff is the bread and butter of any of these builders now. Skip's AMG deal has clearly expired, we haven't seen an AMG boat since he left (big blk/gold center console was the last one I think). Losing PBC was a huge blow, they were the biggest CRT dealer in the world. I'd bet they sold 70% of new Cigs in the last 5 years.

CRT's success is based on the boat sales, all the other stuff is secondary (lifestyle, t-shirts, jet skiis, whatever). They "sink the boat sales" and none of that other stuff matters. Cigarette has had about a dozen owners since 1969, 2-3 were great owners/boat builders and the others were failures. You can be the judge of what type of owner Ruiz will go down in history as.

Another season of ownership will likely remind the current owners that wow this isn't an easy/sexy business and CRT will get sold to someone else. Remember the old saying, "How do you make a million in the boat business, start with 20 million!"

A guy like Ron Szolack could be a great turnaround guy but he might be too smart to entangle himself in this mess.
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Old 02-23-2023, 07:20 AM
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My opinion on the matter as it relates to the salesman angle...I don't care if the guy is wearing flip flops or a suit they should be treated as if they are going to write you a million dollar check to build a boat...it's sad that they have the nose in the air mentality..I think that will hurt them more than anything IMO.

As for the jet ski....I think a better use of resources would be to develop/convert an existing boat to outboard power. Personally I am not a fan of outboards in the performance world. I know they have proven their place but to me a powerboat is a fire breathing big block loud obnoxious boat....just what I saw growing up and why I decided at 15 no matter what I will have one. I haven't been able to afford a cig but nonetheless I still consider myself "in the industry." That being said....many can't afford a new gun with twin 1200 hp motors and 8's but someone might be able to afford say a 28-30 with a couple 450's on it. Also that same person will NOT be spending 50k on a jet ski IMO. I think there is a huge gap in the market right now that nobody east of the mississippi is trying to fill to my knowledge. Either a single engine mid size 25-30 performance boat or twin outboard mid size. I personally about fell over when I saw OL single engine 29....to me that is just as appealing as a mid 90's gun but if it were a 29 ft single engine deep vee that would be a game changer I think. Imagine back in the day...the mid sized AT's or sonics or even formulas that were absolute wave crushers and not huge twin engine monsters. Would I love a huge twin engine monster? Of course who wouldn't?! But that requires me looking at older "affordable" guns that are a nightmare to finance and will likely need work.

I don't know...this is just a middle class man rambling but I think cig is missing a huge market that should be tapped and it's NOT the jet ski market lol
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Old 02-23-2023, 07:42 AM
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Originally Posted by BBYSTWY
My opinion on the matter as it relates to the salesman angle...I don't care if the guy is wearing flip flops or a suit they should be treated as if they are going to write you a million dollar check to build a boat...it's sad that they have the nose in the air mentality..I think that will hurt them more than anything IMO.

As for the jet ski....I think a better use of resources would be to develop/convert an existing boat to outboard power. Personally I am not a fan of outboards in the performance world. I know they have proven their place but to me a powerboat is a fire breathing big block loud obnoxious boat....just what I saw growing up and why I decided at 15 no matter what I will have one. I haven't been able to afford a cig but nonetheless I still consider myself "in the industry." That being said....many can't afford a new gun with twin 1200 hp motors and 8's but someone might be able to afford say a 28-30 with a couple 450's on it. Also that same person will NOT be spending 50k on a jet ski IMO. I think there is a huge gap in the market right now that nobody east of the mississippi is trying to fill to my knowledge. Either a single engine mid size 25-30 performance boat or twin outboard mid size. I personally about fell over when I saw OL single engine 29....to me that is just as appealing as a mid 90's gun but if it were a 29 ft single engine deep vee that would be a game changer I think. Imagine back in the day...the mid sized AT's or sonics or even formulas that were absolute wave crushers and not huge twin engine monsters. Would I love a huge twin engine monster? Of course who wouldn't?! But that requires me looking at older "affordable" guns that are a nightmare to finance and will likely need work.

I don't know...this is just a middle class man rambling but I think cig is missing a huge market that should be tapped and it's NOT the jet ski market lol
Not a huge fan of OBís but I like your ideas. think they could re-vamp the 30í vice or bullet and put some OBís on? Think they would need to shed weight at a minimum.
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Old 02-23-2023, 08:13 AM
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Originally Posted by BBYSTWY
My opinion on the matter as it relates to the salesman angle...I don't care if the guy is wearing flip flops or a suit they should be treated as if they are going to write you a million dollar check to build a boat...it's sad that they have the nose in the air mentality..I think that will hurt them more than anything IMO.

As for the jet ski....I think a better use of resources would be to develop/convert an existing boat to outboard power. Personally I am not a fan of outboards in the performance world. I know they have proven their place but to me a powerboat is a fire breathing big block loud obnoxious boat....just what I saw growing up and why I decided at 15 no matter what I will have one. I haven't been able to afford a cig but nonetheless I still consider myself "in the industry." That being said....many can't afford a new gun with twin 1200 hp motors and 8's but someone might be able to afford say a 28-30 with a couple 450's on it. Also that same person will NOT be spending 50k on a jet ski IMO. I think there is a huge gap in the market right now that nobody east of the mississippi is trying to fill to my knowledge. Either a single engine mid size 25-30 performance boat or twin outboard mid size. I personally about fell over when I saw OL single engine 29....to me that is just as appealing as a mid 90's gun but if it were a 29 ft single engine deep vee that would be a game changer I think. Imagine back in the day...the mid sized AT's or sonics or even formulas that were absolute wave crushers and not huge twin engine monsters. Would I love a huge twin engine monster? Of course who wouldn't?! But that requires me looking at older "affordable" guns that are a nightmare to finance and will likely need work.

I don't know...this is just a middle class man rambling but I think cig is missing a huge market that should be tapped and it's NOT the jet ski market lol
You may want to look at what Velocity is doing, most of the boats they are selling is the 29 with twin OB's, 300's, 350,s , 450,s etc. Plus some 22's. Yes they have a couple CC's built but the biggest share is the 29's.
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Old 02-23-2023, 08:17 AM
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And in the end the kid will still be richer than any of us and getting more tail. He will not care, why would he?


Originally Posted by Jupiter Sunsation
Nah..........There is no "Magnum" crowd, they haven't built a boat in years. Europe has its own issues (like the US inflation issues).




Cigarette is likely making 1/10th of the boats that Skip made in his last year of ownership. I/O stuff is sexy but its dead, the OB powered stuff is the bread and butter of any of these builders now. Skip's AMG deal has clearly expired, we haven't seen an AMG boat since he left (big blk/gold center console was the last one I think). Losing PBC was a huge blow, they were the biggest CRT dealer in the world. I'd bet they sold 70% of new Cigs in the last 5 years.

CRT's success is based on the boat sales, all the other stuff is secondary (lifestyle, t-shirts, jet skiis, whatever). They "sink the boat sales" and none of that other stuff matters. Cigarette has had about a dozen owners since 1969, 2-3 were great owners/boat builders and the others were failures. You can be the judge of what type of owner Ruiz will go down in history as.

Another season of ownership will likely remind the current owners that wow this isn't an easy/sexy business and CRT will get sold to someone else. Remember the old saying, "How do you make a million in the boat business, start with 20 million!"

A guy like Ron Szolack could be a great turnaround guy but he might be too smart to entangle himself in this mess.
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Old 02-23-2023, 08:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Smarty
I walked through the Cigarette display Saturday. I love Cigarette boats, but I was extremely disappointed with the display and general "you are an inconvenience to my day attitude" by the 10 or more Cigarette employees who ignored me and all of the show attendees while I was present. If I were a prospect that ship has sailed.
Our experience was different, we arrived on Thursday, we were greeted by everyone. I was wearing a Cigarette Rendezvous shirt from PBC and actually received a couple of compliments from the sales staff on the shirt. They offered for us to board any of the boats and asked us for our opinions and inquired about our current boat. One broker even invited us to their facility to look at and ride in a couple they had in the water. My point is, the company is very inconsistent in many aspects, this along with deceptive advertising is going to tarnish what Skip worked hard to build back. Mr. Ruiz is familiar with the roots of Cigarette and did not become successful making poor decisions, hopefully he will re-evaluate and make some changes this coming year.
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Old 02-23-2023, 08:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Wildman_grafix
You may want to look at what Velocity is doing, most of the boats they are selling is the 29 with twin OB's, 300's, 350,s , 450,s etc. Plus some 22's. Yes they have a couple CC's built but the biggest share is the 29's.

Was unaware they were in that market still!! Exactly what I'm saying! I think people in that size market would spend a little more for a cig over a velocity...at least I would as long as it was a sensible amount...like 600k for a 29 ft boat would not be sensible but who knows maybe that's what a new one would cost nowadays?? Not up on new boat pricing lol

Thanks for bringing this up!
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