Re: Marine Lubrication
 

Then I'd take that question one step further and ask, why not Amsoil TRO (20w-50 Racing/Severe Service)?

My quesiton would come from my perspective in my 540ci application. I ran Valvoline 50w Racing during the first 40 hours but that stuff is THICK at start up. With either one, I could probably free up 50HP lost in parasitic drag with the Valvoline! :D

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

Seems like a 50 weight oil is not a good idea. With the motor cold it's likely that 1/ the oil pump bypass is open reducing flow and/or 2/ the block bypass will open allowing oil to bypass the filter and/or 3/ the oil filter bypass will open not allowing the filter to do it's job. the 50w is measured at 210*F so you can imagine what that stuff is like at 60*F.

The main reason for not running racing oils is that they generally lack detergent properties and require frequent changes, like every time out.

The m-1 v-twin 20/50 seems to have the best of all properties for our boating needs. In fact we have started running it in our Late model and UMP Modified dirt race cars also.

My engine builder recommends straight 30w Valvoline for break in.

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

For auto or marine or both? Seems like there would be a difference based on clearances between a motor built for the street and one built for a boat.

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

I believe that as far as marine/auto clearances go, most bearing clearances are the same. Some allow more piston clearance in some marine applications. I believe that GM does not.

My builders break in oil choice is his personal preference, he also uses straight 30W Kendell if the Valvoline is not available.

Obviously you have to go with what your builder recommends. Just surprised at the straight 50W, something I would expect to see in an older Harley

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

Wobble, there is no such oil viscosity as 50w. The correct viscosity is SAE 50. The "W" in the viscosity desination means winter, not weight. The winter classification of an oil is at 0 deegrees F. So a multi vis 20w50 meets a 20w spec at 0 degrees F and an SAE 50 at 210. A 20w oil at 0 F is a much heavier fluid than a SAE 50 at 210. Remember all oils thin with heat. Oil viscosity does not go 10,20,30,40,50,60,70. Ther are 0w,5w,10w,15w,20w,25w, all measured at 0 degrees and SAE 20, SAE30, SAE40, SAE50. 60 and 70 viscosities are not reconized by the SAE. These viscosities are refered to as Grade 60 and Grade 70.
Ken

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

I stand corrected, I did mean SAE 50 or SAE 30.

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

The reason I only included the ARO and MCV 20W-50 oils from Amsoil is that I was not sure about the anti rust/corrosion properties of the TRO oil. It seems that the MCV (Motorcycle) oil has been tested against ASTM D-1748 (humidity cabinet rust test), but I am not sure about the difference between the ARO, MCV and TRO oils generally speaking.
Anyone who knows which of the ARO, MCV and TRO 20W-50 oils from Amsoil would be the best for a marine engine ?
Thanks.

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

Since Amsoil seems to recommend anything they are asked about, (I think I could ask about silicone spray being used in my 540 and they'd agree that it would be a good choice :D) I tried to find Royal Purple Racing 51 and no one that sells RP around here stocks it, I ordered Amsoil TRO 20w-50 Racing.

I'll see how it does. What I'm hoping for is less drag on cold start, maintain good oil pressure (I think OP was a little to high with Valvoline 50 Racing) and gain 150HP rescued from drag. LOL :D Ok, better cold starts and good oil pressure and protection would be good. I'll be changing it 2-3 time this season anyhow.

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

Mobil-1 20W-50 V-Twin is a tough cookie to beat and once you use it and discover how good it really is ...you get addicted to it because it offers a superior level of protection that nothing else can match let alone beat in the marine environment. The heat protection...anti-corrosion and rust protection...dry-start protection for storage up to 4 months...tons of all the right additives...the perfect oil pressure and temperature...it gets the job done like nothing else.

So Wobble..what oil filters are you using anyways? :D

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

Hydro, If you are only putting about 30 hrs per year, N/A motors, indoor stored. How often would you change the V-twin oil. Would it be acceptable to use late May through September? I have decided to use this oil. What's your opinion? Eric

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

I know a guy who is in a similar situation and uses V-Twin with low seasonal hours. He just changes on a yearly basis. This oil has a great anti-corrosion package and you can do it without fear. Indoor storage and less temperature and moisture fluctuation are key points in this scenerio.

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

Hydrocuiser the problem is that the Mobil-1 20W-50 V-Twin oil is not available in Europe, according to Mobil customer support here in Denmark. So I am considering one of the 20W-50 oils from Amsoil and I am wondering which of the 3 versions to use. Is the MCV (motorcycle V-twin) from Amsoil a reasonable substitute for Mobil-1 V-Twin ?

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

Not to get too off the topic, is anyone using a System 1 oil filter? My machinist talked me into getting one of these but System 1 recommends not using the factory relocater Mercruiser provides. Does anyone know of a filter adapter that will work without spending the big bucks for a billet style?

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

Amsoil 20W-50 Racing Severe Service is right up there with V-Twin M-1

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

Hydrocruiser - I can't believe that I made it through all of this information. What a great post! With new engines, how long should I leave the break-in oil before changing to the Mobil oil you recommend? Then, how often do you recommend changing oil - how many hours if I only put on 30/year? 700 hp NA, 1050 Holley. What filter do you recommend? And, what drive oil? I saw your list of oils and filters, but wondered if there are specific ones you would recommend for my application? Thank you.

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

Since you go 30 hrs per season if it were mine...and I wish it was...leave the break-in oil in there for 15 hrs and then go to Mobil-1 V-Twin 20W-50 or Amsoil 20W-50 Racing.

I like Amsoil Marine Drive oil as it is very kind to the seals...and you need a high flow oil fiter with that engine so I would go with a k&N; Wix racing or Fram Racing oil filter.

Got showers on the drive?

Have a great season!

Oil Filter f/ most Mercruisers
FYI:The thread type on the filter is 13/16-16.
Fram: PH5, HP4, DG5, PH13 (no anti drainback) Pureolator: L34631
Purolator Pure One: PL34631
AC: PF1218, PF932
Motorcraft: FL-12A
NAPA: 1060, 1060gold
Wix: 51060
Wix Racing: 51060R, 51061R R= Racing
K&N: HP3002
Baldwin: B1428 (Top Rated)
Amsoil: SDF-24
Hastings: LF279
Fleetguard: LF3679
Mercruiser: 35-802885Q
Mobil 1: M1-302 or M1-111
Kendall: K31
Penzoil: PZ45
Quaker State: QS5
Shell: S63, SH38
Texaco: T38, T38B
Warner: PH1218
STP: S01218
Valvoline: V056

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

hydro, have you ever heard of something being wrong with the filter and the oil going to bypass?

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

And don't forget about the new Amsoil filters. You can only get SD's if they still have them in stock. I just ordered a load from Amsoil including a few EAO24's. The new ones are expensive (about $12 dealer cost) but as supposed to be higher flow and even better filtration than the SD's.

BTW, I also got my 20w-50 Racing oil for the boat. We'll see if it makes me go faster. :D

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

Using a cheap or improper bypass valve in an oil filter on a performance offshore boat almost assures the valve is always open...you need a quality filter that is matched to the engine.

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

The Amsoil SD filters are solid and flow and trap well. But for big horsepower (700+) or blowers... go with a big flow capacity that the racing filters from Fram Racing and Wix Racing offer; flow supercedes micro-filtration..especially when racing.

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

I used a fram tg5 and lost oil pressure from 80# to 20#. mobile one 15-50. I called mercury racing and they said it was probably the filter. I cut this one open and did not see anything strange with it. I'm hoping to get it in the water tomorrow and see if that fixes it.

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

Hydro - thanks for your reply. I do have a Smirek drive shower. I'll make sure to follow your recommended oil, lube and filter. Appreciate the help!

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

Oh, by the way, where can I purchase the Amsoil drive lube? I suppose it has to be from a dealer in the area?

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

A local dealer or you can buy direct, and at wholesale if you sign up as a Prefered Customer for $20/yr.

I just got my order with some backorders but luckily everything for the boat came in! :D So the new slick looking black filter will be going on along with the 20w-50 Severe Service Racing oil!

Re: Marine Lubricatio
 

I went out on the Amsoil website and found several gear lubes. What kind do I need? Listed were the Universal Synthetic Marine Gear Lube and the SAE 80W-90 Synthetic Gear Lube, among others. How many quarts do I need for 2 Bravos? Thanks.

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

The Universal should be the AGMQT (QT is just for quart bottles) which is the new stuff. It's a 75w/80w-90. Don't ask how they came up with that.

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

I found a 100% ester based motorcycle oil that may be a notch better than V-twin as newer formulations of all Mobil synthetics are now group IV's which are PAO's and not Group V Esters......even Redline has a mix of Group IV and V's. Cost probably played a big role in recent reformulations.

-300V Ester Synthetic Motor Oil

-Used by World Superbike Champions and scores of other world class racers.

-300V is completely Polar in molecular structure, causing it to bond to metal and protect against metal-to-metal start-ups.

-Provides up to five times more film strength than petroleum motor oils.


.. it goes for $13.40/qt...it is worth it if money comes easy to you.. :D

http://www.shop.com/op/~300V_Ester_S...-prod-12739503

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

I change the oil today. I'm glad to be rid of that baby poop looking Valvoline! :D It goes in barely translucuent and if you don't run it long so it takes on some black color, it comes out like nasty greenish brown like stuff!

Anyhow, the Amsoil 20w-50 Severe Service Racing oil is like light cherry syrup! ;) It's actually sweet smelling and a nice clear red. It was only on the muffs, but the motor seemed to respond quicker. I wasn't looking for it, I just noticed it.

I was also very pleasantly surprised that after the boat sitting for the last 5-6 months, 2 pumps of the stick and it fired right up and stayed running without having to go to 1500RPM!! It's warm out, but with the Val. SAE 50 Racing, even in 90-100* weather, cold starts were tough. Just seemed like the motor was slooow until it got a little heat built up. It sat with a mix of Amsoil 15w-40 and Val. 40 Racing in it for the winter. Really surprised me at how well it started and ran and still had great oil press. Ya I know, it was on the muffs rattling things on neighbors walls for 3 blocks. :D

I think I'm going to like the Amsoil Racing stuff!!

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

If you look in the trailers of marine racing teams you will many times find Amsoil 20W-50 Racing piled up in cases or a drum sometimes. It's good juice and you will be very happy! What you described during starting means the engine is showing lower friction and is running better. That translates to less wear during start-up. I like the product a lot.

I don't know why but I have not been a big fan of Valvoline products. Castrol and Kendall 40wt conventional's usually show very good UAO's. I would stick with them as far as conventional oils go.

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

amsoil sever racing. is it synthetic?

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

Yes it is. Amsoil (TRO) Severe Service Racing Oil.

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

I may have missed this related topic in the thread. If I did, please direct me to the discussion. So, does it go if we use the best oil for our engines, then a pre-luber is not needed? I am interested in longevity of my new engines, but don't want to spend the money if it indeed is overkill. What do some you oil gurus think? Thanks.

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

Last year, I bought a Donzi powered by a 5.0 GM MPI (260 hp). It seemed to be "making oil." Turns out that the thermostat was stuck open, causing the engine to run cold and dumping raw fuel into the cylinders, thus into the oil.

I got that fixed and the oil level is now constant. Oil pressure is good at operating rpms, but dips to below 20# at hot idle (still within merc specs and I have not tested the guage's accuracy). I have run Kendall GT 40 wt and Valvoline Racing 50 wt., both with the results above. I'm also running the Wix black (were white) filter.

I'd like some better pressure at hot idle. This year I am considering running the M1 20-50 V twin oil. However, I read back in the early pages about troubles with M1 and fuel dilution. In the event that I am still having some dilution, would this cause a problem?

The reason that I ask is that I swear I can still smell fuel on the dipstick, even though it's no longer rising on the stick. Others have smelled the same stick and said I'm nuts, that it smells like oil. So, I could be just paranoid.

So paranoid or not, is the dilution concern valid with the M1 or can I just switch and put my mind to rest? Might I gain some hot idle pressure? Better longevity?

I appreciate your input.

Randy

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

RP and water or gas do not mix..it behaves wierd..M-1 is fine.

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

Randy, if you think you have fuel dilution, just grab a sample of your oil and send it out for an analysis. The lab will be able to tell if there is fuel in it or not. You will also be able to tell by the viscosity, it will be thinner. You should be able to tell by the smell. Ken

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

It is worth a test ...smell it first..send it off...gasoline in oil eventually reaches a concentration where it renders the oil ineffective.

To battle this inheirent problem in many engines ..especially blower engines..you are stuck with very frequent drains of about 10 hours...then just use something like Kendall or Castrol 40wt to keep cost under control if it is an issue using a synthetic.

FYI a fully ester oil like Redline holds out better with lots of gas or alcohol in it and that is why the alcohol dragsters use it.

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

Hydro, who makes Harley Davidson oil for their bikes?

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

At this time Citgo is making the HD oils including the SYN3 "blend".

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

Someone's Amsoil web site said Sunoco makes HD oil.

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

Sunoco was the blender and packer for Harley oil for many, many years. About 2-3 years ago Sunoco sold off it's packing side of the business (they stayed in the distillate side) and thats when Citgo starting private labeling Harley product. Ken