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Re: Marine Lubrication
Originally Posted by Hydrocruiser
(Post 1994146)
Mobil replied to an e-mail from a guy on an oil thread saying: I e-mailed Mobil recently and inquired about the GIII issue with their Mobil 1 oil. They replied that their synthetic oils are 100% synthetic oil with PAO and specialized additives added.
....you can't add PAO to something that is already PAO right? http://theoildrop.server101.com/foru...e=1#Post800351 Just because is a PAO doesn't mean the viscosity was proper for the application. PAO'S, like petroleum base stock can be blended for an application. Ken |
Re: Marine Lubrication
Originally Posted by minxguy
(Post 1994880)
Of course you can. You can mix a PAO 6 with a PAO 8 to shoot for a particular viscosity for a given application. You can even add more than 2 PAO base stocks together.
Just because is a PAO doesn't mean the viscosity was proper for the application. PAO'S, like petroleum base stock can be blended for an application. Ken That's true in that Redline does this very thing you describe....arriving at a GRP V + formula base. So so you think M-1 15W-50 then is 100% PAO by their e-mail reply? |
Re: Marine Lubrication
Originally Posted by Hydrocruiser
(Post 1994912)
That's true in that Redline does this very thing you describe....arriving at a GRP V + formula base.
So so you think M-1 15W-50 then is 100% PAO by their e-mail reply? Why they worded their e-mail the way they does open the door to dialouge. Whoever recieved that e-mail should e-mail them again and ask...what do they mean by 100% synthetic oil? All PAO or a blend of Group III and PAO. I would think they would answer all PAO. Ken |
Re: Marine Lubrication
When ExxonMobil gives me anythying, I will let you know.
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Re: Marine Lubrication
Originally Posted by vandy021
(Post 1995140)
When ExxonMobil gives me anythying, I will let you know.
My suggestion is to have Mobil label their product as being a PAO to differentiate it from a GRP III product ...assuming it is a PAO. My .02 I have tried every synthetic oil out there. Some of them I like and some I just don't as I can feel how the engine runs and track mileage as well. I have seen engines torn down with 600 hard hours that have bearings that look like new with V-Twin being in the crankcase. Having said that....M-1 15W-50 and 20W-50 V-Twin have always performed very well for me. While I see postings on oil threads suggesting Mobil has reformulated "downwards" I personally can not see a performance difference. I would like to know what I am buying, however and content labeling would make me very happy. |
Re: Marine Lubrication
Originally Posted by Hydrocruiser
(Post 1995332)
My suggestion is to have Mobil label their product as being a PAO to differentiate it from a GRP III product ...assuming it is a PAO.
My .02 I have tried every synthetic oil out there. Some of them I like and some I just don't as I can feel how the engine runs and track mileage as well. I have seen engines torn down with 600 hard hours that have bearings that look like new with V-Twin being in the crankcase. Having said that....M-1 15W-50 and 20W-50 V-Twin have always performed very well for me. While I see postings on oil threads suggesting Mobil has reformulated "downwards" I personally can not see a performance difference. I would like to know what I am buying, however and content labeling would make me very happy. It's going to be hard to get any major to do that. I don't think it has gone downward, but I am biased in my opinion. I can let you know what they are touting. "New Mobil 1 15w50 is special high viscosity formulation with extra anti-wear additive, designed to deliver extra protection for severe service such as towing, hauling and racing. Mobil 1 15w50 is recommended for turbocharged, superchared and other high performance engines." It will be available beginning February 5, 2007 througout the ExxonMobil distributor network. PDS and MSDS and Full Disclosure MSDS are not available yet. You will see though the oil 15w50 MSDS... |
Re: Marine Lubrication
Originally Posted by vandy021
(Post 1995346)
It's going to be hard to get any major to do that. I don't think it has gone downward, but I am biased in my opinion. I can let you know what they are touting.
"New Mobil 1 15w50 is special high viscosity formulation with extra anti-wear additive, designed to deliver extra protection for severe service such as towing, hauling and racing. Mobil 1 15w50 is recommended for turbocharged, superchared and other high performance engines." It will be available beginning February 5, 2007 througout the ExxonMobil distributor network. PDS and MSDS and Full Disclosure MSDS are not available yet. You will see though the oil 15w50 MSDS... |
Re: Marine Lubrication
A bunch of PM's asking why Mobil is reformulating 15W-50.
This might shead some light on their decision. http://theoildrop.server101.com/foru...rue#Post803907 |
Re: Marine Lubrication
A few PM's came in about if Amsoil is all PAO or not.
A general statement that can be made is that any $9/qt synthetic oil remains a 100% PAO synthetic. That is most likely true for Amsoil as well. The M-1 V-Twin 10W-40 and 20W-50 are certainly so. Amsoil 20W-50 Severe Service Racing is a PAO. All Redline products are definately GRP V Paos. RP $9/qt oil is and the $6/qt might be..not sure. Lots of good choices. We heard that 15W-50 M-1 is being reformulated as we speak and will be released in a new packaging as well. So we await to see what this "improved formulation" will hold for us. See ya! |
Re: Marine Lubrication
Who makes Mercury 25W-40 oil?
It is made for Mercury by Citgo and that is confirmed by Citgo and Merc. It is a "parafinic" oil simliiar to some of the bases Penzoil Racing has used in the past. The flashpoint is 500*F which is excellent and what one would come to expect from a heavy "parafinic" type oil. What does all that mean? Well Mercury set out to have an oil blended that is extremely resistant to shear forces and apparently succeded at doing just that. It is a "heavy oil" and my best guess is probably one of the best oils of it's particular type that you can get. I would have no problem using this oil but would of course make a mental note that 25 hour drains are prudent. Maybe even an "every other oilchange engine crankcase" flush with "Gunk". Why? There is one "downside" to heavy parafinic based oils and that is they generally have a tendency to sludge up an engine if pushed beyond their limits. The parafin which is a wax can proceed toward it's natural tendency as it breaks down to form carbon and in combination with a waxy matrix you get sludge and later even still "coking". I would imagine there are stabilizers to help reduce this from happening but none the less these types of oils have been reported to on occasion lead to sticky valves etc. if not changed frequently enough to a greter extent compared to parafin free products. Here are the specs it is made to: http://www.mercurymarine.com/uploads...1/003-1647.pdf |
Re: Marine Lubrication
Originally Posted by Hydrocruiser
(Post 2001133)
[B]Who There is one "downside" to heavy parafinic based oils and that is they generally have a tendency to sludge up an engine if pushed beyond their limits. The parafin which is a wax can proceed toward it's natural tendency as it breaks down to form carbon and in combination with a waxy matrix you get sludge and later even still "coking".
I would imagine there are stabilizers to help reduce this from happening but none the less these types of oils have been reported to on occasion lead to sticky valves etc. if not changed frequently enough to a greter extent compared to parafin free products. Here are the specs it is made to: http://www.mercurymarine.com/uploads...1/003-1647.pdf Sludge....a black emulsion of water, other combustion by products, and formed primarily during low temp engine operation. Sludge is typically soft, but can be very hard. It plugs oil lines and screens, and accelerates wear of engine parts. Sludge deposits can be controlled with a dispersant additive that keeps the sludge constituents finely suspended in the oil. Ken |
Re: Marine Lubrication
Originally Posted by minxguy
(Post 2001504)
The specs are an Material Saftey Data Sheet tells you nothing of the elemental composition of the oil.
Sludge....a black emulsion of water, other combustion by products, and formed primarily during low temp engine operation. Sludge is typically soft, but can be very hard. It plugs oil lines and screens, and accelerates wear of engine parts. Sludge deposits can be controlled with a dispersant additive that keeps the sludge constituents finely suspended in the oil. Ken It is a good parafinic oil with high ZDDP levels. The trend these days however is to remove parafin from oil completely. I am not dissing the product but made a few generalizations about parafinic compounds. Additionally, Citgo while offering fine products does not do as much in the racing circuit as Penzoil/Valvoline/Castrol/Mobil or Kendall. I would feel more at ease if a "racing based petroleum development company" made the product. You are a gentleman and oil scholar Ken!:D |
Re: Marine Lubrication
Hydro, don't ever discount a petroleum (parafinic basestock, not napthenic basestock). A quality built lube with a parafinic base stock and the right additive package will perform excellent for 98% of the readers of this thread. Group III bases are what we are talking about, highly refined petroleum base stocks.
Oh and thanks. Ken |
Re: Marine Lubrication
Originally Posted by minxguy
(Post 2003014)
Hydro, don't ever discount a petroleum (parafinic basestock, not napthenic basestock). A quality built lube with a parafinic base stock and the right additive package will perform excellent for 98% of the readers of this thread. Group III bases are what we are talking about, highly refined petroleum base stocks.
Oh and thanks.Ken Your Welcome :D |
Re: Marine Lubrication
A ton of PM's on the disappointment many feel in Mobil going from V/IV to Group III bases.
This may be helpful: http://theoildrop.server101.com/foru...e=0#Post811297 |
Re: Marine Lubrication
Another 10 PM's about which PAO Synthetic to use in 2007.
I know these are 100% PAO's for certain: 20W-50 M-1 V-Twin is PAO 20W-50 Redline is all PAO 20W-50 All Amsoil Products are still 100% PAO We think RP is 100% PAO Penzoil Platinum is still 100% PAO and a value for your autos. German Made Castrol is still 100% PAO as well Hope that works for you! |
Re: Marine Lubrication
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Re: Marine Lubrication
Yes to all those who e-mailed me or PM'd.
All Amsoil products are still 100% PAO. RP cliams the same as does Redline. German Castrol is PAO. M-1 V-twin is 100% PAO! If you run hard a lot or race and are used to the benefits of a PAO synthetic then this matters a lot to you. Otherwise it may not. The benefits of a 100% PAO are in it's ability to resist shear and retain viscosity under high heat and shearing forces and to provide the highest possible film strength. This produces less wear and increased durability and maximizes engine life. Hydro's definition of 100% Synthetic is 100% PAO>! |
Re: Marine Lubrication
German Made Castrol is still 100% PAO as well
Where do you get german made castrol? My BMW calls for synthetic and the oil cap says Castrol is preferred. Thanks |
Re: Marine Lubrication
Originally Posted by shark42
(Post 2012752)
German Made Castrol is still 100% PAO as well
Where do you get german made castrol? My BMW calls for synthetic and the oil cap says Castrol is preferred. Thanks GC is a Group IV/V synthetic, so to the extent that it's not a Group III like the rest of the Syntec line, it is a "real" syn. Autozone has it among others. |
Re: Marine Lubrication
BMW and Porsche' have tests onging with Amsoil as we speak.
It was in an Auto Trade Magazine last month. |
Re: Marine Lubrication
A few asked if there is a synthetic group IV/V oil that unlike Mobil-1 V-Twin has Moly added for reduced friction and it's beneifts such as additional anti-wear properties and an increase in fuel economy.
Yes Amsoil Severe Service Racing 20W-50 and Redline 20W-50 have IV/V bases and all the good additives including moly. Both great products as I have used both with much success. Keep the questions coming!:D |
Re: Marine Lubrication
What PAO for cars is easilly available and reasonably priced?
Penzoil Platinum Fully Synthetic. Excellent stuff. |
Re: Marine Lubrication
Originally Posted by Hydrocruiser
(Post 2018826)
What PAO for cars is easilly available and reasonably priced?
Penzoil Platinum Fully Synthetic. Excellent stuff. |
Re: Marine Lubrication
Originally Posted by o2man98
(Post 2019132)
You better double check this as I believe that any Pennz Plat made after Oct 2005 is a GRP III oil like the other over the counter "synthetics".
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A bunch of e-mails asking what to use in 2007 that is a convenient PAO product to attain and has a good track record in offshore use.
Definately 20W-50 Mobil-1 V-Twin all the way and the new Mobil-1 Oil filters are excellent and all can be had at most autoparts stores. |
First Oil Analysis on 496 HOs
2 Attachment(s)
Results of analysis on new engines. I changed the oil
at 30 hours. Installed Merc filters and Mobil 1 v-twin 20w 50. This analysis was after changing the oil at 50 hours (20 hours on the oil) |
Originally Posted by myturn
(Post 2027760)
Results of analysis on new engines. I changed the oil
at 30 hours. Installed Merc filters and Mobil 1 v-twin 20w 50. This analysis was after changing the oil at 50 hours (20 hours on the oil) The oil could have went 40 hours for sure! |
http://theoildrop.server101.com/foru...e=0#Post826893
Amsoil will no longer will comment on what base their "mid-grade" oils are formulated from. We know for sure that: Mobil-1 V-Twin 20W-50 All Redline Products Amsoil 20W-50 Racing Severe Service Continue to be 100% PAO Grp. IV./V. |
Originally Posted by Hydrocruiser
(Post 2028979)
http://theoildrop.server101.com/foru...e=0#Post826893
Amsoil will no longer will comment on what base their "mid-grade" oils are formulated from. We know for sure that: Mobil-1 V-Twin 20W-50 All Redline Products Amsoil 20W-50 Racing Severe Service Continue to be 100% PAO Grp. IV./V. Although AMSOIL has publicly stated that its XL motor oils are Group III based and its other motor oils are PAO based, specific formulary information beyond that is exclusive and proprietary. AMSOIL views synthetic base oils the same as it views additives. The XL line is GRPIII and the others are PAO. Don't forget about the AMSOIL MCV 20w-50 Motorcycle Oil, great stuff. |
Originally Posted by o2man98
(Post 2030585)
From AMSOIL.com http://www.amsoil.com/faqs/faq8.aspx?zo=1132530
Although AMSOIL has publicly stated that its XL motor oils are Group III based and its other motor oils are PAO based, specific formulary information beyond that is exclusive and proprietary. AMSOIL views synthetic base oils the same as it views additives. The XL line is GRPIII and the others are PAO. Don't forget about the AMSOIL MCV 20w-50 Motorcycle Oil, great stuff. All this hocus pocus about base content is going to eventually hit the Ralph Naders of the world that realize in about 100,000 miles or so that their engines are worn more than expected after paying premium oil prices and are upset and want to do something about it. |
Originally Posted by Hydrocruiser
(Post 2013213)
BMW and Porsche' have tests onging with Amsoil as we speak.
It was in an Auto Trade Magazine last month. We supply all the BMW dealers in Indiana with their BMW oil which Castrol fills... |
I think we can debate this forever and really never know the long-term effects, if any. I choose to continue to use Mobil 1 in my Avalon and Denali (5W30) and in my 496 MAG (15W50) regardless of their base content. As long as I use the proper weight and change it regularly I cannot see ever having an oil related engine failure.
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I havn't read this thread in awhile. What's the consensus on using mobil gold cap for a 502 and should mobil's gear oil be used instead of merc drive oil? Haven't looked at this thread all winter, things might have changed in 58 pages :)
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Originally Posted by cloudmaster_321
(Post 2032585)
I havn't read this thread in awhile. What's the consensus on using mobil gold cap for a 502 and should mobil's gear oil be used instead of merc drive oil? Haven't looked at this thread all winter, things might have changed in 58 pages :)
Drive oil results are mixed and M-1 works well but so does Mercury. |
Hydro, are you based here in Detroit??
also what about Schaeffers?? My dad and I run it in our vehicles.. he has 235k on a 98 lincoln 4.6 32V...and changes it at 9k I love their product. It seems like it does not get enough run about how good it is??? Great Info here Steve |
I know the diesel guys love Schaeffers. I tried their synthetic grease once and it separated too much. I would get a face full of oil out of my grease gun trying to grease my truck. All greases separate some but this stuff was terrible.
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Originally Posted by myturn
(Post 2027760)
Results of analysis on new engines. I changed the oil
at 30 hours. Installed Merc filters and Mobil 1 v-twin 20w 50. This analysis was after changing the oil at 50 hours (20 hours on the oil) Ken |
Originally Posted by Hydrocruiser
(Post 2033300)
At this point M-1 V-twin 20W-50 would be the logical choice.
Drive oil results are mixed and M-1 works well but so does Mercury. |
Living in Europe where they don't supply M-1 v-twin.....
What to buy? |
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