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Re: Marine Lubrication
Originally Posted by o2man98
(Post 1981693)
Your are correct when you say that 10W and SAE30 are different specs. But so are 20W and SAE20. SAE 20 and SAE 20W are two totally separate monograde classifications. SAE 20 describes the high temperature viscosity of the oil and SAE 20W describes the low temperature cranking capability of the oil. Not all xW ratings are made at 0* F. While the high temp viscosities are rated at 100C or 212F, the "w" ratings use low temperature cranking viscosities at different temperatures.
SAE Viscosity-Cranking (cP) Grade - Max at temp oC 0W - 6200 at –35 5W - 6600 at –30 10W - 7000 at –25 15W - 7000 at –20 20W - 9500 at –15 25W - 13,000 at –10 An oil can be classified as a multigrade SAE 20W-20 if the oil can meet both the low temperature cranking viscosity of 9500 cP at –15C and the 100C high temperature kinematic viscosity requirement between 5.6 and 9.3 cSt. The AMSOIL motor oils listed above meet both the low temperature requirements of SAE 10W and the high temperature requirements of SAE 30. Thus the products are true SAE 10W-30 and SAE 30 oils. Ken I am using 0 degrees as a reference for Saybolt Seconds. people seem to grasp the concept a little easier. I realize that the cST/cP is more universaly accepted. Ken |
Re: Marine Lubrication
Originally Posted by minxguy
(Post 1981881)
What you have stated is true for any multi-viscosity oil, any brand. Hence the term multi-viscosity.
I am using 0 degrees as a reference for Saybolt Seconds. people seem to grasp the concept a little easier. I realize that the cST/cP is more universaly accepted. Ken http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/images/visc.jpg |
Re: Marine Lubrication
Originally Posted by o2man98
(Post 1982042)
Saybolt or SUS is measured at 212F and 100F.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/images/visc.jpg This comparison chart does not get to the "W" temp for oil grading. It states on the bottom that the "W" grades are classified on low temp properities. 100F is not low temp properties for a "W" rated oil. Ken |
Re: Marine Lubrication
Originally Posted by Hydrocruiser
(Post 1981104)
I got a bunch of PM's that expressed discontent with M-1 15W-50 EP allegedly changing over to GRP III.
Am I happy with this decision? Not in the least! Is 15W-50 still a good product ...yes. Is there something out there for around $6.00/qt that remains a true Grp IV PAO with excellent ZDDP additives etc? Yes!! What is it? Royal Purple 20W-50 sold in 5 gallon pails and shipped UPS free to your door for $6.25/qt and $6.99 in single quarts. While at it their gearlube is excellent and a PAO product as well. How do I get it? http://www.rpmoil.com/index.php?main...b62a8a9bc42262 Is this what I would use if I decided not to use V-Twin @ $9.00/qt. Yes. I am hence moving my 15W-50 M-1 use over to RP 20W-50 as it is a PAO/ better value and quite comparable to V-twin as well for $6.25/qt in bulk 5 gallon units with free UPS delivery in the 48's.. |
Re: Marine Lubrication
Originally Posted by Knot 4 Me
(Post 1982374)
Hydro, is this their regular 20w50 that is a PAO or is it their XPR 20W50 that is a PAO? There is $6/quart difference in price bewtween the two oils at Jeg's so it makes me wonder if the XPR is the PAO and not the regular 20W50.
I am working on that..good question. |
Re: Marine Lubrication
Originally Posted by Knot 4 Me
(Post 1982374)
Hydro, is this their regular 20w50 that is a PAO or is it their XPR 20W50 that is a PAO? There is $6/quart difference in price bewtween the two oils at Jeg's so it makes me wonder if the XPR is the PAO and not the regular 20W50.
Let me know what you hear. |
Re: Marine Lubrication
Originally Posted by Hydrocruiser
(Post 1982436)
The tech told me they have not gone to Grp III bases and said all RP products are GRP IV or V.
Let me know what you hear. |
Re: Marine Lubrication
Originally Posted by Knot 4 Me
(Post 1983132)
Thanks. The XPR line must have a way beefier additive package to justify the upcharge.
Ken |
Re: Marine Lubrication
I'm going to put an oil thermostat on my boat, because the oil wasn't getting past 140°F for most of last summer.
Should I get a 180°F thermostat, or a 200°F thermostat? http://www.racerpartswholesale.com/mocal.htm |
Re: Marine Lubrication
Originally Posted by Hydrocruiser
(Post 1980061)
The question becomes do we continue with M-1 15W-50 from a number of you?
My answer is that in an offshore boat you need the best edge you can get if you are to see the most longevity from your engine. I like a Group IV/V synthetic best. Here are the 2007 2,000lb. synthetic oil gorrillas: M-1 V-Twin 20W-50/Redline 20W-50/RP 20W-50/Amsoil Severe Service 20W-50/Spectro 20W-50.The list is getting shorter. Yes...15W-50 M-1 is still a great product and i use it as well. It is NOT on the list above however. |
Re: Marine Lubrication
Originally Posted by minxguy
(Post 1983141)
For $6.00/quart, it has to be a lot more than a uptreat in additive.
Ken |
Re: Marine Lubrication
Back to drive losses do to oil viscosity. On the thread "HP losses from Bravo 1X drive" a couple of interesting statements:
Steve Zuckerman reported: "This research was going on at Mercury (outboard) during the heyday of factory racing (F-1, Mod-VP). We went on to lubricants. He said this where Mercury was able to pick up discernable HP increases. He said using lightweight synthetics, with high shear strength, netted as much as 10 HP at high RPM (in this case 9000+) and reduced operaing temps considerably, which helped the small volume speedmaster live through a 50 lap circle race on an F-1." This would be a single gear versus the double gear in an I/O drive and a lot less shafting and bearings spinning in the lube. Conversely this is higher rpm than an I/O. Strip Poker reported: "I have a friend that drag races the 2.5's (outboards) here and all he uses is the Alisyn oil. I used it type 2 in a Imco drive, it is a lot thinner than the merc stufff.I could spin the prop by hand like a fan blade. Steve Zuckerman reported: "I have used Merc, RP, and Alisyn. Gear wear seems the same with all three, but the boat (28" Nordic Heat with Bravo drive) is faster with the synthetics." Articfriends reported: "I haven't compared a measured hp loss but I can tell you this summer when I was trying different surface finishes and treatments on lower bravo gears in my quest to find something that will extend there life I ran 75/140 royal purple and was never able to break 90 mph. At the end of the season in almost identical weather conditions/water temps I once again saw mid 92's after switching back to 75/90 royal purple." What would be the best low viscosity synthetic with the high shear strength to run in a Bravo drive? |
Re: Marine Lubrication
Originally Posted by Rage
(Post 1983260)
How do you get and where do you go for the best pricing of the Redline 20W-50 and the Spectro 20W-50 Platinum?
http://www.247-parts.com/view_cat_su...l1=2&cat_l2=10 it's cheper here when in stock.. http://www.jscspeed.com/index.html?/univ/redline.htm |
Re: Marine Lubrication
Originally Posted by Hydrocruiser
(Post 1984820)
I have not tried Spectro yet; but get Redline from here:
http://www.247-parts.com/view_cat_su...l1=2&cat_l2=10 it's cheper here when in stock.. http://www.jscspeed.com/index.html?/univ/redline.htm |
Re: Marine Lubrication
Originally Posted by Rage
(Post 1983260)
How do you get and where do you go for the best pricing of the Redline 20W-50 and the Spectro 20W-50 Platinum?
|
Re: Marine Lubrication
Originally Posted by Knot 4 Me
(Post 1983300)
So you are thinking like I am that the base oil is different between the two products?
|
Re: Marine Lubrication
Originally Posted by Rage
(Post 1984314)
Back to drive losses do to oil viscosity. On the thread "HP losses from Bravo 1X drive" a couple of interesting statements:
Steve Zuckerman reported: "This research was going on at Mercury (outboard) during the heyday of factory racing (F-1, Mod-VP). We went on to lubricants. He said this where Mercury was able to pick up discernable HP increases. He said using lightweight synthetics, with high shear strength, netted as much as 10 HP at high RPM (in this case 9000+) and reduced operaing temps considerably, which helped the small volume speedmaster live through a 50 lap circle race on an F-1." This would be a single gear versus the double gear in an I/O drive and a lot less shafting and bearings spinning in the lube. Conversely this is higher rpm than an I/O. Strip Poker reported: "I have a friend that drag races the 2.5's (outboards) here and all he uses is the Alisyn oil. I used it type 2 in a Imco drive, it is a lot thinner than the merc stufff.I could spin the prop by hand like a fan blade. Steve Zuckerman reported: "I have used Merc, RP, and Alisyn. Gear wear seems the same with all three, but the boat (28" Nordic Heat with Bravo drive) is faster with the synthetics." Articfriends reported: "I haven't compared a measured hp loss but I can tell you this summer when I was trying different surface finishes and treatments on lower bravo gears in my quest to find something that will extend there life I ran 75/140 royal purple and was never able to break 90 mph. At the end of the season in almost identical weather conditions/water temps I once again saw mid 92's after switching back to 75/90 royal purple." What would be the best low viscosity synthetic with the high shear strength to run in a Bravo drive? Ken |
Re: Marine Lubrication
Originally Posted by minxguy
(Post 1985992)
A full synthetic 75w90 if you are looking for the least amount of parasidic drag. A 75w140 for best wear.
Ken What is the viscosity rating of the Quicksilver severe duty LU oil? |
Re: Marine Lubrication
Originally Posted by Rage
(Post 1987010)
Any guidance as to the full synthetic 75w90 with the best wear?
What is the viscosity rating of the Quicksilver severe duty LU oil? |
Re: Marine Lubrication
Spectro's full synthetic gears oil are PAO and ester blend.
Ken |
Re: Marine Lubrication
Originally Posted by sleeper_dave
(Post 1983232)
I'm going to put an oil thermostat on my boat, because the oil wasn't getting past 140°F for most of last summer.
Should I get a 180°F thermostat, or a 200°F thermostat? http://www.racerpartswholesale.com/mocal.htm |
Re: Marine Lubrication
You want the oil temp above 212 so the water burns off. KEPP sells one that is between 215 and 220.
|
Re: Marine Lubrication
you mean this one?
http://www.keitheickert.com/detail~ID~1035.aspx For twice the price? Yeah right. So, back to my original question, is a 180° stat okay, or should I spring the extra $25 for a 200°F stat? http://www.racerpartswholesale.com/mocal.htm Personally i'm leaning toward the 180° stat. I'm sure the oil will see a higher temp somewhere in the engine that would allow it to burn off water. But that's not my primary concern, as I had zero water contamination after 25 hours without the oil seeing more than 160°F, usually below 140°F. |
Re: Marine Lubrication
Originally Posted by BenPerfected
(Post 1987768)
You want the oil temp above 212 so the water burns off. KEPP sells one that is between 215 and 220.
Ken |
Re: Marine Lubrication
Originally Posted by sleeper_dave
(Post 1987789)
you mean this one?
http://www.keitheickert.com/detail~ID~1035.aspx For twice the price? Yeah right. So, back to my original question, is a 180° stat okay, or should I spring the extra $25 for a 200°F stat? http://www.racerpartswholesale.com/mocal.htm Personally i'm leaning toward the 180° stat. I'm sure the oil will see a higher temp somewhere in the engine that would allow it to burn off water. But that's not my primary concern, as I had zero water contamination after 25 hours without the oil seeing more than 160°F, usually below 140°F. After I pound a pair of 502's for an hour and take a read of my oil filter with my heat seeking ray gun it shows as much as 230*F and that's with a 200*F stat. A good hard run makes this debate loose wind? |
Re: Marine Lubrication
A constant oil temp assumes that you have an oil cooler with enough capacity to keep the oil temp at or below the thermostat rating at all loads for an extended peroid.
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Re: Marine Lubrication
With gas being 3.50 a gallon last summer i didn't run that hard very often. I have a 16" oil cooler, and most of the time the gauge didn't budge off 140. I do a lot of boating in the early and late season with water temps as low as 40°F.
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Re: Marine Lubrication
I missed some posts ,what does PAO stand for ??Catch me up to date.
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Re: Marine Lubrication
Originally Posted by MYSKATER32
(Post 1988774)
I missed some posts ,what does PAO stand for ??Catch me up to date.
Ken |
Re: Marine Lubrication
FYI...the latest reformulation of M-1 Extended products has Group IV back in them. It may be a III/IV blend.
15W-50 M-1 is back on my "A" list. See ya |
Re: Marine Lubrication
Originally Posted by Hydrocruiser
(Post 1989391)
FYI...the latest reformulation of M-1 Extended products has Group IV back in them. It may be a III/IV blend.
15W-50 M-1 is back on my "A" list. See ya |
Re: Marine Lubrication
While sitting in a Dentist's office today,i picked up a corvette magazine,no offshore reading material,i brought this to the attention of the receptionist! Anyway there was an article in it about Mobil One 15w 50 Oil,written by a Mobile Oil engineer.He talked specifically about the oil requirements of the Corvette Z06 engine and its relationship to Mobil One oil.He refurred to the different formulations as" Series". In 2005 they came out with "series 5 ",their SYN oil,In 2007 they are changing the formula to "Series 6", and they now have "Series 7"oil in developement.It was interesting reading.
|
Re: Marine Lubrication
Originally Posted by Hydrocruiser
(Post 1961953)
I only have a couple minutes to do this today so I will do it quick and dirty....these are products OSO members have used and have enjoyed much success with.
Some go with all Mercury products; others with M-1 or Amsoil and some mix and match. My personal picks are in bold. Oil Filters: -Fram HP Racing -Wix Racing -Mercury Marine HP -Baldwin -Mobil-1 -K&N -Amsoil |
Re: Marine Lubrication
How many quarts to completely change the gear oil in a Bravo 1?
|
Re: Marine Lubrication
FYI...I heard that Blackstone is finding that all $9/qt synthetics are 100% Group IV or V.
How's that for a scientific method of determining what synthetics are not Grp III for certain?:D |
Re: Marine Lubrication
Originally Posted by Hydrocruiser
(Post 1991215)
FYI...I heard that Blackstone is finding that all $9/qt synthetics are 100% Group IV or V.
How's that for a scientific method of determining what synthetics are not Grp III for certain?:D Ken |
Re: Marine Lubrication
Originally Posted by minxguy
(Post 1991268)
I was told that a lab such as Blackstones could not tell the difference in base stocks of a finished lube and they couldn't even tell between synthetic (regardless of group number and price) and petroleum. In talking to Kristen at Blackstone Lab moments ago, she confirmed what I was told years ago. Who ever told you this is possible misspoke.
Ken They have known calibration basestock standards and can "play" and estimate.. I heard they don't offer the service to the public but have the capability to do it if they wish. One of the emplyees there played aorund and posted some info on an oil board I heard. |
Re: Marine Lubrication
Originally Posted by Hydrocruiser
(Post 1989391)
FYI...the latest reformulation of M-1 Extended products has Group IV back in them. It may be a III/IV blend.
15W-50 M-1 is back on my "A" list. See ya Can you believe anyone would listen to "some guy" on the internet? LOL :drink: |
Re: Marine Lubrication
Originally Posted by Hydrocruiser
(Post 1989391)
FYI...the latest reformulation of M-1 Extended products has Group IV back in them. It may be a III/IV blend.
15W-50 M-1 is back on my "A" list. See ya They are coming out with a Mobil 1 15w50 without the EP again. |
Re: Marine Lubrication
Mobil replied to an e-mail from a guy on an oil thread saying: I e-mailed Mobil recently and inquired about the GIII issue with their Mobil 1 oil. They replied that their synthetic oils are 100% synthetic oil with PAO and specialized additives added.
So my take is they are using Group III bases with added PAO and additives....you can't add PAO to something that is already PAO right? So what will the NEW 15W-50 M-1 be Vandy..any word? I hope they are not removing the Extended Performance (EP) because it is not meeitng that level of service requirement! Redcap was 100% PAO. Goldcap is being said to be mostly GrpIII....I hope the new product is 100% PAO even if the cost is greater. I do know that Auto Manufacturers in Germany are upset with the changes and may take those little stickers off the oil caps.... Here is the M-1 Grp III debate.... http://theoildrop.server101.com/foru...e=1#Post800351 |
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