Re: Marine Lubrication
 

Anyway you can cool the lake off about 20 degrees? :D

I would like to see you try Mobil-1 20W-50 V-Twin with a very free flowing filter like a Fram HP.

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

Those are hopped up mills...I would also like to see you move up to Mobil-1 V-twin 20W-50 and if you put in a temp sensor add it someplace just after the oil cooler to see how well the cooler is working.

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

JP I see you are using Lucas additive...scroll down (bob's Lucas test link) to the picture of the Lucas frothing up....sure you want to still use it??? If your oil is frothing up like that no wonder you are seeing high temps.

Try straight Mobil-1 20W-50 V-Twin..the Amsoil dual filtration system is a great flowing unit I am told.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/images/lucas/lucas.htm

This oil below has Lucas (rt side) in it and is frothing like mad...frothed up oil has a lot of air in it that traps heat and will not lubricate very well....ugh

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

I was asked what additives to use etc...

Most additives are not needed if you buy a High Performance oil. You want the manufacturer to determine which additives you need and test the oil. I am not advocating backyard oil chemistry.

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

What oil cooler??

http://www.hardin-marine.com/product...il-coolers.htm

Dual Tandem Oil Cooler 2" Diameter / 18" Length
This is one of the best designs anywhere. Two coolers and only one water hose connection. Each tube consists of thirty-one 1/4" seamless tubes with displacement baffles so you can be assured you're getting maximum cooling when you need it.

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

Thermostat controlled oil cooler..

http://www.hardin-marine.com/product...il-coolers.htm

"The Ultimate" Hi-Performance Thermostatically Controlled CoolerQuite simply, the ultimate oil cooler on the market today! It maintains oil temperature thermostatically and all in one unit. If you suffer from either high oil temperature or even moisture or condensation in your engine oil this is the answer. The oil thermostat is designed to maintain an oil operating temperature between 190 degrees and 215 degrees. The thermostat bypasses the cooler until operating temperature has been reached and then balances oil flow to maintain optimum oil temperature. This alone can save you from years of damage caused by operating your boat with too cold oil.

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

POsted on Mobil's site..


V-Twin M-1

"The formulation is based on the proven technology used in other Mobil 1 automotive products, yet they are optimized for the unique requirements of a motorcycle engine.

The motorcycle oil also has more phosphorus/zinc for enhanced wear protection at high engine speeds and high loads.

As you know, a typical air-cooled V-twin's rear cylinder gets a lot hotter than the front cylinder – it's a matter of airflow. When it's hot out and you're stuck in traffic, the oil temperature in your bike climbs rapidly. Above about 250°F, conventional motor oil is going to break down. Mobil 1 V-Twin synthetic oil is good to above 300F".

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

Most Mobil 1 is...

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

I received a question about what "EP" additives are...

...here goes in a nut-shell..

Extreme Pressure or EP additives are usually organometallic compounds of chlorine, sulphur, phosphorous, and other metals which coat metal surfaces with a soft metallic surface layer that "shears" easily. The theory here is that it is better to shear a soft metal layer than the base metal itself. EP compounds are usually used in differentials, transmissions, and gear boxes, where extreme contact pressures exist.

So EP additives essentially "take the hit" and protect your gears from wear.

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

Guys check into swepco products , they really are the best,have been using in all of our Nortechs and Drives also. Many engine builders are using now, simply wont mix with water in drives unlike torco, great friction fighting capabilities and increased longevity and horsepower.. Only oil Ron Potter uses, and his motors live and we get alot more enjoyable hours from his motors than the competition. how about 250hrs out of 850 and 150-200 from 1150.

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

I received a question about oils that have high moly ppm's as a "friction fighter".....here is a brief article..

http://lubesolutions.com/html/molyeo.html

"Molybdenum compounds in motor oils can degrade and cause bearing corrosion and is particularly aggressive towards copper. In almost all cases, any engine oil formula having "moly" will also contain a Copper Deactivator which will protect bearings from the moly compounds. The only problem, the copper deactivator decomposes at relatively low temperatures and looses it's potency after a few thousand miles".

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

"The word "synthetic" has no real meaning anymore in regards to oil. Conventional oil can be labelled synthetic, there are no rules as to how much % synthetic there must be for oil to be labelled as synthetic. Group III oil which is just highly refined petroleum oil, is labelled as pure-synthetic".

One of the board members e-mailed this to me..my response is if I see a group III. labeled fully synthetic I will post the info as I feel only Group IV and V. bases are true synthetics.

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

Got a question about lubrication??

Here ya go...

http://www.engineersedge.com/lubrica...dge_menu.shtml

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

Info requested on Swepco High Performance oil:

Southwestern Petroleum Corporation...SWEPCO offers several oils including high-performance 15W-40 and 20W-50.

The 15W-40 is API rated CG/SJ; CF-2, Mack EOM and Cummins CES ...it would be great for marine use.

The 20W-50 is not API rated and here is what I have found out about it:

It is a high performance oil with a high level of friction reduction additives that started off as a paraffinic based oil as opposed to a PAO or ester. It's base has a lot in common with PAO's so the base oil is comparable to Mobil-1 or Amsoil's.

Additives:
Magnesium: 6
Phosphorous: 1384
Zinc: 1747
Calcium: 3227
Moly: 146

CsT's @ 100*F 70

This sample of Swepco 20W-50 would compare to the base and additives expected to be seen in Premium Synthetic oils such as Amsoil Severe Service 20W-50 Racing; Royal Purple 20W-50 racing; Redline 20W-50 or Mobil-1 20W-50 V-twin.

All of the above oils including Swepco would reduce friction and keep bearings cool and are the best 20W-50's around.

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

I heard this stuff is excellent for you 2-cycle eggbeater guys..


http://store.yahoo.com/oilstore/pen100synout.html

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

Spin on oil adapters:

http://www.perma-cool.com/Catalog/Cat_page29.html


I was asked what the easiest way to relocate an oil filter...these work great. Just spin on in place of the oil filter......they work great from what I hear...they have..lines and fittings etc...

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

I have been asked and begged to rank oils for EXTREME offshore usage in monster motors. I am sure this will throw a few sparks but here we go:

The best:

#1 Mobil-1 20W-50 V-Twin ...the worlds best heat handling oil and still the biggest baddest gorrila of the pack. 518*F Flashpoint...the worlds best structured heat resistant based synthetic oil with additives to die for!
#2 Redline 20W-50 ...it's jet turbine oil that has automotive additives...just about every dragster uses it. It's a bad boy and the UAO's prove it.

#3 Amsoil 20W-50 Severe Service/ Swepco 20W-50/Royal Purple Racing...solid PAO or parafinnic based oils that are tried and true. But still 3rd on my list.

Any complaints?? When YOUR oil can "flash" at 518*F you will have bragging rights to be #1 too!!!!!!!!!

REMEMBER>>>HEAT KILLS YOUR OIL'S ADDITIVES & it's the additives that prevent metal to metal contact at times/ don't be afraid to beef up your oil cooler too. Refer to the posting a few pages back on the topic.

The most expensive oil is the one that does not work for your application.

That's MY top 3 picks and nothing else would be in my offshore boat under any conditions.

...as always..use what you like. :D

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

I have received many reports from several here who are using Amsoil Marine Synthetic Gearlube (AGM-75W/80W-90) with great results. They feel in some cases there is less drag and a smiggen of that seen in faster take offs and possibly a top-end gain by some of up to 1 mph. No metal on the magnets as well.

These observations along with a good anti-corrosion package and excellent anti-foaming agents shows Amsoil has earned the right to your business with this product. It is one that I personally would use. The other competitive products have merit of course but this is a marine tested synthetic and to that end is tried and true. I especially like that Amsoil added seal conditioners to best suit the type of seal used in marine drives. Preventing a seal failure probably would reduce drive failures considerably. That is worth thinking about.

Further info and online ordering;
http://www.amsoil.com/StoreFront/agm.aspx

In summary:

-Excellent Gear and Bearing Protection even
when contaminated with 10% water
-Reduced Friction and Wear
-Rust and Corrosion Protection
-Long Seal Life
-Superior Foam Prevention

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

You obviously have significant knowledge regarding oil etc. I run a Pro-Charged modified 454 Mag (between 750hp to 800hp guesstimations). It starts to use oil at about 15 hours so I have been changing oil at about that interval. What are your thoughts as to ail change intervals and drive oil changes?

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

Oil is an ongoing research project for me..I learned as much from "you guys" as some have picked up from this thread.. :drink:

A couple questions..

Do you sense that the engine is actually "burning oil" at about 15 hours or the level begins to drop on the dipstick and you wonder where it went to?

If the oil level is going down ("not being burnt" which is what I suspect is the case) it may because the oil has volatilized off and become more concentrated and thicker causing volume reduction.. The higher the base-grade of the oil the less the volatilization and the oil is more resistant to "cooking down". Also, as the additives become spent the oil begins to break down sometimes. 100% ester based oils for example will not cook down even in turbines.

Oil change frequency on a 800 HP blower engine even with a premium synthetic is probably still up to 20 hours. But expect longer engine life with the synthetic. With 800 HP I would change the drive oil and engine oil at the same periods. I like the way Amsoil Marine Outdrive Synthetic is doing this season from stories I have gotten. The 20W-50 Mobil-1 V-Twin or Redline 20W-50 along with Swepco; Alisyn and RP 20W-50 or Amsoil Severe Service as well are great choices for your set-up. Give one a try and let us know your results. Additionally, the K&N oil fliter is probably the one for you!

Using a multi-vis conventional oil or even a non-premium multi-vis synthetic oil that has viscosity enhancers ( polymers) is not really the BEST choice for this type of application if you are striving for maximum durability.

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

How lubricants affect fuel economy (they used diesel engines but the data is similiar in gas engines they tell me)...the oil information battle goes on... :D

...in a nutshell the data shows that "engine bearing friction" robs the greatest about of horsepower and with the right oil and additives can "give some back too". It then makes sense that oil related engine failures would show excessive bearing wear or damage.

Got prematurely worn bearings...?? solution..Premium Synthetic Oil.

http://www.iantaylor.org.uk/papers/SAE2000012056.pdf

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

Mobil Delvac 1 can show a 3-6% fuel economy boost... Also you can extend your drains thru the Signum Oil Analysis. There will also be a 1.8 million mile testimonial available on the market soon.

We have a customer who goes thru 1,000,000 gallons of fuel a year. 6% is a big number for them to save on gas. As well as the labor costs of extended drain intervals.

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

What does anyone think of the Fram ToughGuard TG30 filter used with VTwin 20W-50 synthetic on a 1996 502 Mag with 135hrs?

Thanks

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

Enough All Ready. We've Been Through Every Oil And Oil Filter Ever Made 10+ Times.

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

The Fram Tough Guard is one of their better filters and is considered genarally a middle tier filter.

An Amsoil SD...Mobil-1...would trap better and flow as good as the Tough Guard...if you want more flow and a bit less filtering then the k&N impresses me in those respects.

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

I realize we have "been there and done this" the info is in the early pages of this thread...but he asked.. :D

I always try to bring new info to the table and do not mind if in the process we stop for a question from the past...

...nothing has really changed in oil filter land...

To recap:

Max filtering/max flow:
Amsoil SD

Max filtering/ good flow:
Mobil-1/Purolator Plus

Good filtering and flow and "cheap price":
A/C and Fram Tough Guard

Good trapping/Excellent flow:
K&N/Wix Racing/Mercury HP/Baldwin

Average trapping/excellent flow:
Fram HP series

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

..........except the ToughGuard..........

The search feature works well on OSO, try it sometime, or just read something else if this is so bothersome.

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

Hydro, haven't read the whole thread but haven't seen you touch on Allison oil, have you ever heard of it? What can you tell me about it? We have used it at the shop in Ohio but want to here what you think.

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

I remember reading that the ToughGuard is one filter Fram makes that has good internal parts...most Fram filters would be ok if the relief valve and assembly were a bit more sturdy.
The HP/racing series are great on flow but not trapping and that is where the k&N's have a niche'.

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

Aerospace Industries INC. makes Alisyn synthetic oil. I do not have a ton of info on them but from what I have seen of the 20W-50 synthetic and synthetic marine gear-lubes.. they can go toe to toe with most premium synthetics.

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

From what I know, if you are talking about the Alisyn trans lube it was made by Castrol. Now it's bottled by Mobil and called Delvac Synthetic ATF. Volvo construction, CAT, Detroit are bottled by Mobil as well. Cummins has the Cummins Blue name under Valvoline.

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

Yes that is it I knew I was spelling it wrong, they make a special blend for us in Ohio, it is quite pricey but I feel well worth it, when we use it in our out drives we notice them running cooler and we seem to gain 100rpm. We have been totally pleased with it, I am just suprised I don't here more about them from other boaters. Thank you.

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

Good stuff.

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

Is this the stuff sir?

http://www.aerospacelubricants.com/c...wt&details=585


http://www.aerospacelubricants.com/c...wt&details=597

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

rastaboatin,

I have been running their gear lube for 14 years and the drives hold up great. They do run quite a bit cooler. Some people said they had it foam up on them, I haven't seen that.

One of my friends ran a Bravo 1 behind 750hp in a 28 Velocity for 300 hours with zero outdrive problems. Him and I both are running 28 Eliminator cats since 1999 with very few outdrive problems.

I ran the engine oil for a few years and my engine builder did not light the black residue it left on the aluminum, so I switched to Mobile 1.

Back in the early 90s, their gear lube was cheaper than Mercurys and that's why I tried it back then.

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

I would definatly agree, although the stuff we run you cannot buy at any store, we have a good connection there and they make us a special drum just for our shop. The owner of the shop I use to go to in Columbus,Ohio is good friends with the guy from there and he sponsored the F-1 race team that we use to have a few years ago and we tried some new stuff in that boat. Since then we have been using that same mixture in our boats and customers boats and have had great success with it. We use the store bought stuff quite a bit also and have never seen that foaming problem. We did see that with a product we were comparing it with called Red Line, I think it was called. What we were most impressed with was the RPMS you pick up with the product. We have taken samples to trade shows where they have those demonstrations set up of how good there oils are compared to all other oils and we have them test the oil sample we give them and they can not match it :D They have something really good going and I am sure he will release it very soon. We do have permission to sell it to the public out of the shop and I can get prices to anyone that is interested, but like I said before it is very pricey.

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

Let me correct myself... I misunderstood. It's Allison Synthetic Transmission Lubricant that Castrol was blending not Alisyn. ExxonMobil has now put their name on the bottle, but Castrol is still blending it for them. Sorry, didn't mean to confuse everyone...

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

I was asked what the difference in base-stock is between Redcap and the new Goldcap formulation.

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

They are the same base-stock..... Their is no difference in either base formulation... What it comes down to is how ExxonMobil chemists decide to make the additive package. Yes they buy thier own addititves from themselves as well. It's an accounting function. ExxonMobil does not go on the outside, too often to get their base-stock or additives. There are a few, but I am not allowed to disclose that. It's proprietary. They own 55% of the market. What it comes down to is the change in formulation.. That's about it...

Long story short..

Same base-stock, same refinement and hydro-cracking....

Different additive formulation.

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

Got a Question for Hydrocruiser!! I haven't read all of the posts so please forgive me if you have answered this before. I'm using a straight 50w conventional oil with a Fram HP-4 filter on twin 502s running 4000--- to ----5600 RPMs no sign of proplems to this piont only have 100 hours, change oil every 20 hours. Thanks in advance.