Re: Marine Lubrication
 

50wt is great if you are in an area with outdoor temps in the 90's....that is real thick oil...can mean dry starts too...now Mobil-1 20W-50 V-Twin is actually a straight weight product with NO polymers to beef it up...but it pumps like a 20W. Real tough stuff.

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

Hydro,what is the general consensus on drive oil. I ran merc hi perf for a few years and switched to some "secret" oil this year that max machine is rebottling (to the tune of 200$ dollars plus for 2 1/2 gallons). This alisyn oil looks interesting,I'm running almost 1000ft lbs torque thru a bravo one,just lost a set of lower gears after 30 hours this year and approx 30 last year without quite as much power last year. What weight would be the best overall if looking for a high shock/high load gear oil. I would assume the 85/140 but the merc drive oil looks like about 50 wt oil,Smitty

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

Nothing beats this for extreme applications. Lots of great feedback. With that kind of torque you need gears made from depleted uranium. :p

http://www.redlineoil.com/products_g...60&subcatID=20

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

I would love to use/try a K&N filter but I can't find one that will fit in that tight space between the bracket and manifold like the Mobil 1-111 will.

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

[QUOTE=Pismo10]I would love to use/try a K&N filter but I can't find one that will fit in that tight space between the bracket and manifold like the Mobil 1-111 will.[/QUOTE

M-1 is a good flowing filter..if it works with good pressures no need to chnage.

The K&N is more an alternative for racers needing BIG flow as an alternative to a Fram HP ...

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

The M1-111 is so very small. On my last M1-111 the oil pressure started darting around between 30 and 40 psi, acting like it had clogged up already and was going in and out of bypass, after only 35 hours. An oil change and switch to the TG30 seems to have solved. Who knows, the TG may do the same thing after a few hours, we'll see. Vtwin 20-50 with 135hrs total 502 stock.

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

I must have a mental block...TG30?

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

I know of 3 people this season who have had suspected and or documented oil related failures in their offshore engines...oils have been reformulated this season and I suspected we would have a few but hopefully not too many war stories to share...these days you need to know what to do to remain confident you are using the right products...

Follow these simple rules...

Use only oils that do not contain viscosity enhancers....that means straight weight oils...

Premium Synthetic oils are straight weight oils that "behave" and "pump" like multi-vis oils but are unique in that they do not have polymers or so-called viscosity enhancers that break down quickly in an offshore engine running hard...


So if you use a conventional oil then a 40wt probably is what you should be using.

The Synthetic Premiums that are non-viscosity enhanced are the usual line up such as M-1 V-Twin...Redline...Amsoil Severe Service Racing...RP Racing...Alisyn...Swepco.....Torco

If you do not run hard or race then move on... :p


As far as drive lube goes...Amsoil has my attention because of many good stories I have heard...
M-1..Torco..RP..Redline..Swepco...are great too I am sure


Just my .02 based on a year of talking to racers...mechanics...petro chemists and engine builders...

As always..use what you like.. :D

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

TG30 is the Toguhguard TG30 filter which is bigger than the M1-111 but still fits.

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

Gotcha

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

A question about using extended oils...my feeling..

Stay within factory max intervals during waranty. Then switch if you like.

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

You can run out as long as you can. On commercial vehicles we can take their intervals from 100 hours up to 600 or even 1000 with oil analysis..

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

As far as miles go the guys on Bob's board who extend with Amsoil or M-1 EP chicken out at around 18,000 miles. That's with oil filter changes and topping off in between every 5,000 miles. The whole process may save oil but when you add up the cost of doing tests to be sure and the oil filters and topping off.

I say just go the manufacturer's maximum and then change.



My .02 :D

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

You can run M-1 out too 25,000 miles and Delvac 1 out to 30,000 miles. They will be coming out with a 1.8million mile ad here soon. If you are using Mobil. I would use the Signum Oil analysis. It gives trend analysis. Blackstone only gives a snapshot. I would follow the manufactures oil recommendations. I though have seen the tests, seen the oil analysis's and the engines after a million miles that look brand new.

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

The day an oil company teams up with automakers and they both concur and assure me that that going 25,000 miles on any oil will retain the manufacturer's engine warranty will be the day I change my mind. :rolleyes:

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

The commercial OEM's will warranty it... Mobil 1 used to have guarantee's for the 25,000 miles and that's how it was marketed in the early 80's. Granted I was in my diapers, we still have the sales materials. I'd have to look but I think one of them that is initial filled says you can go 15K with a filter every 5K. ?? I'd have to look.

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

...just have 'em put it in writing in my automobile warranty book please.. :D

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

If you get the warranty from Mobil... They will purchase you a new engine if it was due to oil failure. Never once happened. There are Comercial Warrinties for the Delvac 1 and 1300 Super and PVL for the Mobil 1.

They are certificates car dealers hand out and so on

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

I think going "extended" needs to take factors into consideration such as how clean burning the engine is and what metals the components are made of. There is no "one shoe fits all sizes here"...

For example Porsche' states the following:

"Patented LOKASIL high-silicon cylinder liners help reduce friction and wear to such a level that Porsche can recommend a 15,000-mile (24,000 km) oil change interval and a 30,000-mile (48,000 km) oil filter change interval".

Briggs and Stratton is using Teflon coated pistons; better trapping oil filters and synthetic oils for extended use.

So I think extending is part the oil's role and part the manufacturer's role in engine metallurgy and coatings etc.

For marine engines as we know the premium Synthetics hold up better under adverse conditions such as when condensation accumulates and when gasoline may contaminate the oil... this alone can save an engine. Offshore cast iron hogs still need relatively frequent changes much depending on use and environment. So using a Premium Synthetic extends the engine's life most importantly.

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

I received several e-mails about non-premium synthetic multi-vis oils such as Mobil-1 15W-50 Goldcap or other $5-6/qt synthetic oils from Amsoil or Quaker State etc. in reference to use in offshore boats.

I am surprised the question still keeps arising but here is my current feeling and it is an opinion. Here goes:

-For what I call "recreational offshore boating"... with a non-blower or non-hopped up mill... where the engines are in the cruise mode for much of the time with a good run in-between....the $5-6/qt synthetics are fine.

-For added protection if your engines are blown; hopped up and you live at WOT and don't know what "cruise" is all about...then you ought be into a Premium Synthetic and they cost $7-9/qt. Yea like 20W-50 V-Twin..Amsoil 20W-50 Racing etc.

The Premium synthetics mix with gasoline and still retain film strength for you blower or hopped up engine folks...and they handle heat and shear much better. They are the racers edge.

So pick which suites your needs if you are a synthetic person. :D

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

Speaking of Amsoil, they asked us to be their Indiana distributor....

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

That's interesting Craig..


They e-mailed me too...but I am not about to go into the oil distribution business anytime soon. :D

They have 26 different synthetic oil products
10-Gear lubes
3-Compressor oils
2 Greases
6 Oil and air filter products
2-Filtration systems
-Antifreeze
-Oil abalysis kits
-Untold additives etc.

If you stock them all....you will need a B-1 Bomber hanger and you dad's office too!!

Imagine 26 different synthetic oils. That's a lot of flavors of anything. :D

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

ExxonMobil has a more comprehensive sythetic lineup... They didn't e-mail.. Certified letter with an offer. We have no interest. ExxonMobil has

-Gargoyle Artic SHC 200 Series
-Mobil 1 Motorcycle Oils
-Mobil 1 w/ Super Syn
-Mobil 1 EP
-Mobil Syn ATF
-Mobil Delvac Syn ATF
-Mobil 1 Syn Gear Lubes
-Mobil 1 Syn Spray Lube
-Mobil Artic Turbine
-Mobil Delvac 1
-Mobil EAL Series
-Mobil Glygoyle's
-Mobil Jet Oil 254
-Mobil Jet Oil II
-Mobil Pegasus 1 (Natural Gas)
-Mobil Rarus 800
-Mobil Rarus SHC 1020 series
-Mobil SHC 500 Series
-Mobil SHC 600 Series
-Mobil SHC 800 Series
-Mobil SHC PM Series
-Mobil Syn Oven Lube 1090
-Mobil Synturion 6
-Mobilgard 1 SHC
-Mobilgear SHC 150-680
-Mobilgear SHC 100, 1500, 3200, &6800
-Mobilgear SHC 22M, 46M (Open Gear)
-Mobilgear SHC XMP 320
-Mobilgrease EAL Series
-Mobilith SHC 220, 221, 460, 007 and 1500
-Mobilith SHC 100
-Mobilith SHC PM
-Mobiltemp SHC 32
-Mobiltrans SHC 50 and SHC Artic
-Mobilube SHC

I think with Mobil being around a lot longer they have a little bit bigger of a line up. I also don't care for how Amsoil slammed XOM technology..

If you ask me, that's a very comprehensive, comercail, passenger, paper industry, marine and industrial line up. Not to mention several H1 & 2 oils along wiht refrigerent and EAL (enviormentaly firendly oils).

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

Hey Craig?

Why isn't Amsoil in the Jet Avaition Lube business as well as some of the other commercial areas? I heard that Conoco-Phillips is making a Jet lube product?? Not sure.. who are the A/V players?

Correct me if I am wrong but Amsoil basically has a bunch of auto/truck/maine oil/lube "variations or different blends"?

..is your dad cleaning out his office yet? :D

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

We have the Conoco line, but I am not sure. Most all of the Majors ie XOM, ChevronTex, BP, RD/Shell, Castrol have av oils. Shell seems to have the biggest market on 4-stroke. Mobil Jet Oil is really big in the turbine/jet market. Yes you are right about Amsoil, but they are trying to get into the industrial by private labeling product.

When some big company like GM or CAT are using oils, they aren't going to go to the in-house guy. They are going to go to the majors like XOM, Castrol, Chevron, etc...

And the final question, no he's mad at the computers right now.

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

So Craig, what is Amsoil saying about Exxon Mobil (XOM) these days anyways?

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

Wouldn't you like to know... Nothing that I would post on here or can publicly say. I like not getting in trouble :rolleyes: . And yes, they are trying to get into the big game of industrial synthetics. The funny things is though that all of the tests they run don't show how the oil works in real life situations..... Basically it's a pipedream and all test results negate their claims. They want to take it from the guys selling it out of their grages, to big time distribution. They need to get their facts more correct and use some real test that work in the industrial world...

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

Hydro; I really think that you need to set up your own "Oil Expert" website and categorize all this info and the related comments. After 16 or so pages of which your comments filled 12 to 14, (and I AM interested in what you have to say) I think that we need to move on. It's gotten so that I can't find the section of concern to me and I'm getting lost in the "BAFBS*". (*that would be "backandfouthbullsh!t") --- Jer

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

There are many times I personally have to hunt back through it all too in order to answer an e-mail or phone call...

I had hoped we could manage this here as it mostly pertains to offshore boats and I am not one to have the time to moderate a new oil site right now. But there is a lot of info here...I found that in printing it out...it is a bit easier to manage.

At least the info is here especially for the new guys coming on-board. I just tell everybody who asks if they have a question to e-mail me and I will chase down an answer.

Right now I have a call list consisting of:

-Bob is the oil guy
-6 engine builders
-17 marine mechanics
-5 oil companies
-7 offshore racers
-3 offshore boat production companies
-14 die-hard offshore boaters
-3 bartenders ;)

If I do not have the answer I find somebody who does. I adhere to confidentiality and do not mention sources by name ......ever..... as you may have noticed.

So the thread moves onward... :D

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

Now there's my problem; I've been listening to the bartenders! And after letting them serve me for much too long! --- Jer

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

Ever notice bartenders love thier jobs...all ya gotta do is pour..count and bill. :D

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

A guy who knows me laughed his butt off at my postings here and the interest that has been generated around the subject of oil...he said before reading all this he thought the oil did all the work and now feels the additives are perhaps more important than the base oil itself.

Well he is exactly about 50% right. When the anti-wear additives are contaminated or molecularly "spent" the base oil is next to near useless and breaks down fast....and vice versa...so oils with high base contant complement a great additive package.

Adding a ton of great additives to a lesser base-stock however... "is like putting perfume on a pig". :D

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

A question was sent in about what oil has the highest ester base stock?

Redline has the highest ester content of any synthetic oil according to everything I have read.. however...it is a little too aggressive on copper for my taste, but indeed a great basestock. It has quite high moly levels and also some very aggressive detergents...maybe too aggressive?

Now Redline Racing has light levels of additives and is good for "one race". If you race and can afford to change that frequently...it's a hands down winner to go with.

I like the high PAO's or ester/PAO blends better with more moderate additive packages such as Mobil-1 20W-50 V-Twin or Amsoil Racing...if you are racing or doing a Poker Run...it's a consideration.

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

Hey Hydro,

What do you know about this product?

http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/s...d.php?t=113982

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

I personally do not have much info on Brad Penn oil...this site may be helpful. I see on the label it is a "partial synthetic oil"..not sure what that means?

http://www.amref.com/racing/racing-oils.asp

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

When I pressed the Brad Penn guys this summer on what the percentage of synthetic was in their oil they would only say, "less than 5%".

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

Most synthetic blends are only 20% synthetic and Bob's guys feel not worth the bother...5% is somewhat miniscule...but perhaps it looks good on the label stating " partial synthetic" for marketing etc.

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

I keep getting more and more pressing questions these days...the question is what is the absolute best oil for racing with in a 1000+ HP engine??

Answer:

Redline Synthetic Racing Oil.. SAE 50.. Straight Weight Ester Synthetic (It pumps similair to a 15w-50).


Red Line’s Racing Oils have a global reputation as the ultimate racing lubricant--many teams who have found that the improved performance and equipment durability is the key to winning. Redline Racing oils are made with the most thermally stable synthetic base stocks available and provide the best high-temperature lubrication and a higher film strength than any petroleum or synthetic on the market today. Although Red Line racing oils are categorized as “straight grades”, their low-temperature properties make them exceptional multigrades, allowing 2-4% more power than an oil of similar viscosity, while providing much more protection. Each reduction in viscosity grade allows 1-2% more power. To reduce the chance of detonation, Redline race oils contain very few detergents and are not recommended for street use.

Mobil-1 20W-50 V-Twin would be as good of a choice or perhaps better and perhaps last longer....just learned this today...fyi.

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

Both M-1 Vtwin and Redline mix with gasoline well..and you blower guys know that is a big consideration as gas always seems to get in your oil..right? :D

Re: Marine Lubrication
 

O.K., I'm gonna jump back in here against my better judgement, knowing I'm gonna get my butt kicked. --- Valvoline supplies a 20/50, full synthetic, racing oil that you can special order from accommodating auto parts suppliers that you will not find on their shelves cause it is clearly labeled "NOT STREET LEGAL". My engine builder says that this stuff has more zink in it than anything else you can buy and since we are not dealing with cat. converters here, this would be the best reasonable choice for the hi-perf marine guy. His race cars sure do well with it. And by the way; It costs less than $6/qt. from my local store; and he stands behind his builds if you use this oil. --- Jer